RGB Classic Games Forum

I always intended to someday create an FAQ for this site, but no one has ever asked any questions, so there are no frequently asked questions to answer. I'm going to answer them anyway.

Q: What does the RGB in RGB Classic Games stand for?

A: It literally stands for Red, Green, Blue, which are the primary colors used by monitors to produce images.

Q: Why isn't [Game X] on this site yet?

A: It might not be classic. People create games for DOS even now, but that doesn't make them classic. Lots of people create DOS games for computer classes in high school, and some DOS sites accept them. I don't. I created quite possibly the best Snakes/SNAFU game ever when I was in high school, but I'm not publishing it on my own web site because merely having created it didn't cause it to be classic. Even if the game you're thinking of was commercially published during the "DOS Age", it still might not be classic because, well, maybe it sucks.

It might not be legally redistributable. A lot of people think that a game is "abandonware" as soon as the publisher no longer sells or supports it. The copyright remains with the copyright holder unless they choose to relinquish some or all of their rights, which they are not obligated to do.

Finally, if the game meets all of the above criteria, I probably haven't gotten around to it yet, or I've never heard of it. You can recommend it in the game recommendation thread!


Q: Why isn't the Zork Trilogy on this site? Activision released it as freeware a few years ago.

A: The Zork Trilogy is NOT freeware. Activision made downloads of the games available as a promotion following the release of Zork Nemesis. Each download contained the following license:

GRANT. Activision, Inc. ("Activision") hereby grants you a non-exclusive license to use the accompanying computer game, Zork: The Great Underground Empire, provided that you may not:

a. modify or create derivative works based on the Game;
b. copy the Game (except for back-up purposes);
c. rent, lease, transfer or otherwise transfer rights to the Game;
d. or remove any proprietary notices or labels on the Game.

After C|Net published an article that claimed that the Zork Trilogy had been released as freeware, I phoned Activision's legal department to ask if the games were really free when the license clearly states that the game can't be copied. They replied:

Back when we released either Zork: Nemesis, Return To Zork or Zork: Grand Inquisitor (all of which were back in the mid 90's), Activision did a sort-of "promotion" to help boost interest in the "new Zork" title. They released for a very short time, the three (3) Zork titles for D/L off their website.

As the "new Zork" title fazed away, Activision removed the titles from their website. Hence, the user could no longer download the games.

Since then ALOT of people have READ INTO this as being that we've essentially given these particular titles away, and that we have no interest in them. (ie- "Hey! They're giving it away.")

This simply isn't the case.

You'll also note that MOST, if not ALL of the Infocom titles are considered to be Public Domain as well, which also isn't the case.

They also said that they "reserve all our rights to pursue any legal measures we deem appropriate against the offending site(s)." I contacted C|Net and they contacted Activision to confirm. They removed the link with the following explanation:

Editor's note: CNET has been advised by Activision that the company's release of the original Zork titles was a limited promotion, and that the company "has since removed them from that 'free' status." As such, we have removed the download link that was originally presented here.

Since part of the mandate of this site is to preserve classic DOS games, I created a petition to convince Activision to re-release the Zork Trilogy, either for sale or as freeware, at http://www.petitiononline.com/Zork/. I hope any fans of the series will sign it. The list of all of Classic DOS Games' petitions is at https://www.classicdosgames.com/petitions.html.


Q: Hey, you're wrong, dude. I have seen [Game X] on many official-looking download sites. It is definitely free.

A: That isn't exactly a question, but I'll answer it anyway. <Ahem> I do not care if other sites choose to offer downloads of that game. If I can't prove that the game is legally redistributable, I will not distribute it. The terms and conditions of most web hosting providers include a provision that allows the host to cancel an account without refund for copyright violations. Although it may be impossible for a copyright holder to incur damages relating to a product they no longer sell, that doesn't prevent them from shutting down web sites that violate their rights to a game. They created the game, and they have every right to lock it up in a vault and make sure that no one can ever enjoy it again. If that makes you upset, it doesn't hurt to politely ask the copyright holder to release the game as freeware. I create petitions and write friendly emails. Those are productive responses.


Q: Why is your site so ugly?

A: There are two main reasons.

The first is that I haven't had time to worry about it much, yet. Just locating all of the versions of these games, reviewing them and turning it into a website is a lot of work. I do this in my spare time, so it's been a long process.

The second is that I have absolutely no artistic ability. I'm a programmer. HTML/CSS/PHP/MySQL are perfect for an old programmer like me. They only require problem solving, which is something anyone can learn to do. Art is a more difficult talent to develop.

Q: Who are Administrator and DOSGuy? Aren't they both the same person? Do you have multiple personalities or something?

A: Yes, we are the same person. DOSGuy is my personal account for when I'm posting as myself. Administrator is the account I use for basic forum management tasks, like creating threads for all of the games on the site. So, if you ever see Administrator logged on, that means that new games are about to be added, or something interesting is about to happen.

Q:: Who runs this place?

A:: DOSGuy is the webmaster of RGB Classic Games, and MrFlibble is the administrator of the RGB Classic Games Forum.

Q: Why is your site so ugly?

lol.. I don't think it is. It looks like a lot of forums. A bit abandoned though now. The only ones here are me and "MSN bot". It's sad hun.

DOSGuy wrote:Although it may be impossible for a copyright holder to incur damages relating to a product they no longer sell, that doesn't prevent them from shutting down web sites that violate their rights to a game.

I have a question. Have you EVER heard about an abandonware site being shut down by a game company (even if the game in question is NOT for sale ANYWHERE anymore) simply on the grounds of "It's my game and I can do what I want with it, including never distributing or allowing someone to distribute it, ever again! And your site is goin' down for distributing MY game without MY permission!"? Legally it is within their right to, as you said. However I have NEVER heard of such a response from a company when the game in question isn't even being sold any more, such that they'd not be losing money anyway. If you have an example of such an incident, please let me know, because I surely haven't heard of such an incident.

They're protecting their IP making sure it dosen't come into public domain. A lot of companies do this, it's perfectly within their rights. There's no arguing about that, and "abandonware" as you know it, simply does not legally exist, period.

If you ask me, i'd define abandonware as the majority of freeware games that were once available in 1995-2002 when the lot of them were hosted on their own geocities, xoom, etc. sites... not some game you can download for free because you're too lazy for ebay or Amazon.

But have abaondonware sites ever been shut down over copyright claims? Or is that one of those things you do, because it's right, JUST for the sake of being legal, even if you know nothing bad will happen for breaking the rules?

Yes, a number of ROM sites I used to visit were shut down, even though Nintendo hadn't sold any of the games for over 10 years at that point. I used to get old operating systems from a great website that had copies of DOS up to about 5.0 and Windows 1.0 to 3.1, and one day the front page was replaced with a copy of a letter from Microsoft's lawyers threatening legal action if he didn't remove the downloads (as if Windows 3.1 was a threat to sales of Windows XP). I'm not sure if any DOS games websites were taken down entirely, but I know of a few sites that had to remove all of the games from companies that are members of the ESA. This isn't theoretical; I know of many websites that were totally taken down or forced to remove content under the threat of legal action for distributing software that the copyright holder hadn't sold for years.

Beyond not wanting the legal hassle, there are moral reasons to keep the site legal. I've put thousands of hours into this site and I want people to respect the site and what it stands for. It's one thing to be a user and an entirely different thing to be a distributor. I'm sure we've all committed a little copyright infringement at some point, but actually distributing illegal content is pretty shady, even if the copyright holder isn't harmed.

Incidentally, the fact that Microsoft's lawyers took the time to take down a website that was distributing old copies of MS-DOS was the inspiration for my freeware question when I interviewed Bill Gates.

I read your interview. That was AWESOME! I have something to say about one of Mr. Gate's replies.

interview wrote:Now that Microsoft isn't supporting MS-DOS any more, is there any chance of a freeware release? It's not like DOS is competing with Windows Vista!

That's true, but it's probably not going to happen. Once you give something away, you can't control what's going to be done with it. MS-DOS isn't a toy. DOS can control any part of the PC at a hardware level, and it's much less secure than modern operating systems like Vista. Imagine if we gave MS-DOS away and suddenly it became the OS of choice for hackers? We could get a lot of negative publicity for letting something as powerful as MS-DOS casually fall into the public domain.

My reply to Mr. Gates:
If you were so worried about hacking, then you'd have not made all of the Windows OSs up through XP capable of DOS program execution. It seems obvious that your intention is a selfish one which you are not willing to admit to. And that intention is more a form of projecting power and control. Your action of NOT releasing DOS as freeware is in effect saying "DOS is an MS OS and we intend to not release it as freeware, as at the moment we can demonstrait our power and control by intentionally not making free DOS, even though it is obsolete and no longer supported by us.". Mr. Gates, that clearly is what your actions are saying, and I know it, even if you refuse to admit that is what you are saying, and continue to lie, claiming you actually have a different reason, as the truth is that you have no good reason to not release DOS as freeware.

Did you check the date on which that interview was published? :-)