Running Windows programmes in DOSBox without Windows

[MrFlibble]

I've stumbled upon this rather interesting conversation at VOGONS: Will there ever be a practical WindowsBox program?

In this thread, two very interesting things were mentioned. The first one is an attempt by a programmer to implement parts of Wine code in DOSBox, which allowed to successfully run a few Windows games.

In all of this discussion, it might be worth noting another approach. Danoon was experimenting with adding parts of WINE into his Java port of DOSBox with some success. Before anyone gets too fixated on the Java part of it, think of what might be possible with normal DOSBox or the DOSBox-X branch. I think this could be the best solution. Danoon has managed to get Full Tilt! Pinball and the Caesar 3 demo in jDOSBox without Windows being installed in it first. The goal should be to get Windows games to run without a copy of Windows.

http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=3 ... 20#p256484

The other is a thing called the HX DOS-Extender, which is, essentially,

a free DOS extender with built-in Win32 PE file format support. Usually the purpose of a DOS extender is to make protected-mode features available for DOS applications. HX fully supports this goal, but goes some steps further. A Win32 API emulation layer is part of HX which allows many Win32 console applications to run in DOS. This emulation goes far beyond similiar approaches in other extenders (Borland's PowerPack, WDOSX or Phar Lab TNT). Furthermore HX implements - limited - support for windows, DirectDraw, GDI and even OpenGL graphics. This allows to run "simple" Win32 GUI apps in DOS as well.

Apparently neither of the methods is perfected at this point, but they show some promise. I am especially intrigued at the implementation of Wine under DOSBox, which sounds very appealing.

[watson]

Neato!

[DOSGuy]

The first one is an attempt by a programmer to implement parts of Wine code in DOSBox, which allowed to successfully run a few Windows games.

That's Boxed Wine, by the creator of jDosbox. He did indeed get Full Tilt! working, but he said it was just too much work to port the entire Windows API. He stopped working on Boxed Wine over a year ago, but he has another idea that he's looking into now.

The other is a thing called the HX DOS-Extender, which is, essentially, a free DOS extender with built-in Win32 PE file format support.

Tried it. Couldn't get much of anything to work in it. I think it was mostly aiming to support Windows console programs, so I wouldn't hold out too much hope for running graphical Windows programs in it. I did actually get ScummVM running it in, but games were super slow and prone to crashing. It's not seeing much development any more. That's why I had higher hopes for Boxed Wine. Boxed Wine appears to be a dead end, but something else may be coming.

[MrFlibble]

That's Boxed Wine, by the creator of jDosbox. He did indeed get Full Tilt! working, but he said it was just too much work to port the entire Windows API. He stopped working on Boxed Wine over a year ago, but he has another idea that he's looking into now.

It's a pity that guy stopped working on it, maybe someone else will take it over (and implement in non-Java DOSBox builds). Even if this only ensured Win16 compatibility it would already be a great asset, especially since Microsoft seems to be bound on dropping legacy OS support (there's no Virtual PC with WinXP mode for Win8, and official support for WinXP is going to end in near future).

Both DOSBox and WINE are open-source projects, so I guess we can hope that sooner or later something workable will crop up.

[DOSGuy]

I'd love to run Win16 programs in DOS, since you no longer can in Windows. As far as I can tell, no one is even working on that. HX DOS Extender executes PE (Win32), not NE (Win16).

[Malvineous]

Do you mean you want to run Win16 programs without Windows? Because you can install Windows 3.1 in DOSBox and use that to run Win16 apps.

[DOSGuy]

Because you can install Windows 3.1 in DOSBox and use that to run Win16 apps.

Yes you can, if you have a copy of Windows 3.1. I do, but most people don't. Also, it would be illegal for me to put a copy of Windows 3.1 into a disk image to allow Win16 games to be played on this site.

[watson]

Well, at least Windows 3.1 works, if you can get your hands on a copy, and have a way of putting it on DOSBox. I found our old copy of Win 3.1 hiding in our old, dusty 5 1/4 inch floppy case, and managed to get our old floppy drive working, so I just followed the Classic DOS Games tutorial for setting 3.1 up and now I'm all set.

[MrFlibble]

Yes you can, if you have a copy of Windows 3.1. I do, but most people don't. Also, it would be illegal for me to put a copy of Windows 3.1 into a disk image to allow Win16 games to be played on this site.

Yup, this concern is shared by other people who wish to make old games playable directly from their websites (like The Sierra Help Pages).

I also have no idea how one can legally obtain a copy of Win3.x today except chancing upon one at a flea market or something. After all, a simple software compatibility issue should not suddenly transform into a question of obtaining rare collectible items.

[watson]

I also have no idea how one can legally obtain a copy of Win3.x today except chancing upon one at a flea market or something. After all, a simple software compatibility issue should not suddenly transform into a question of obtaining rare collectible items.

True. The only reason I even bothered is because we actually still have a copy of Windows 3.1 in the first place. (Actually we also have a second copy, on 3 1/2 inch disks)

Edit: BTW, I just found a few Ebay listings for Windows 3.1, including a full, sealed retail copy for almost $50, so there's that...

[Malvineous]

Ah yes, I see - even if you had a licence you still couldn't put it up on the site. I was thinking of the time some charities were installing Win95 on recycled computers for underprivileged families, and Microsoft tried to stop them but bowed to pressure after the unsurprising backlash. I thought they had allowed free use after this, but now I investigate it looks like they provide special licence fees for certain organisations.

I was thinking MS would care about Win3.1 even less, but then who knows with them. As one comment about the charity licensing put it, "only Microsoft could take money from charities and make it look like they were being big-hearted."

[DOSGuy]

The fact that Microsoft probably wouldn't care is the heart of the "abandonware" theory. What's more likely is that Microsoft wouldn't notice, but if they ever did, they would probably be forced to enforce their copyright. At any rate, I'm not going to break the law just because I could probably get away with it.

[MrFlibble]

The real problem is that Microsoft probably will not care if someone tries to approach them and negotiate free use of their legacy OSs for such purposes as running games on a website.

Then again, has anyone actually ever tried contacting MS? (I know it's probably going to be a futile attempt, but anyway.)

[Malvineous]

I think if you were going to do it, you'd have to have a contact inside MS or be able to directly contact someone who would understand why you were asking. Maybe one of the original designers if they still work there.

If you were "pirating" Win3.1 then yes, MS would have to enforce their copyright, only because failure to do so can cause them to lose their copyright (since not enforcing it can be taken to mean they don't care about it any more and are happy for it to lapse.) But if they were to release Win3.1 as freeware, that doesn't affect their copyright and would make these types of uses possible.

Maybe someone should at least try to ask?

[DOSGuy]

I've long dreamed of contacting Bill Gates on Twitter about a freeware release of MS-DOS 1-6.22 and/or Windows 1-3.11. Free might be too much to ask, though. I could contact Microsoft about licensing Windows 3.1 for use on this site, but I see two problems with that: 1) I probably wouldn't get a response, and 2) I can't guarantee that people wouldn't download the disk image and use this site as a source for free copies of Windows 3.1. That came up when I contacted another company about a license to put their software in disk images to allow games to be playable in-browser using jDosbox.