You know, I hate to use the forum to only talk about the bad things that companies are doing. I'd love to have threads about good products, good movies, and good companies. We do have a thread for favorite games and people. I prefer to be positive, but right now I only have negative things to say about PayPal. Since there was already a thread about them...
As I've posted in the past, I have more free time at the moment because my contract at work expired. Being unemployed put me in a tight spot financially so, I'll admit, I was one of those guys who waited in line to buy, or pre-order, Nintendo Wiis and PlayStation 3s. I only waited hours, though. I'm not one of the guys in a tent who waited for days. Nevertheless, my goal was to purchase the consoles in order to sell them on eBay, which I did.
The mistake I made was accepting payment by PayPal. I sold two Wiis, one of which was a local pickup, and the other was shipped. Someone claiming to be from PayPal called my house at night and asked me for tracking numbers. I was shocked! Why would they ask me for a tracking number? It was none of their business. I had a legally binding contract to ship the Wii to the buyer, and PayPal was a third party. They had no right to intervene in our transaction unless the buyer filed a dispute against me. I told them that I would never give the tracking number to a third party. I thought the guy was a scam artist, because there was no way PayPal would presume me guilty of fraud and take preemptive action against me.
Well, I was wrong about that. They really did want the tracking number, and they placed a hold on my account that prevented me from withdrawing my money. I repeat, they refused to give me my money, even though they had no reason to believe that I hadn't delivered the Wiis to the buyers. It was kind of important because I needed that money to pay the credit card that I used to buy the consoles!
Eventually the buyers left positive feedback and PayPal removed the restrictions on my account, but that isn't good enough. They treated me like a criminal, and held my money hostage without justification. I was guilty until proven innocent. I acted in good faith, but they assumed bad faith. How can I trust them if they don't trust me? At the very least, I felt entitled to an apology, and I'm still negotiating with them to get one. Apologies are free, but they're even fighting me on that.
Here's their latest correspondence, and my latest reply. If you're wondering why I referred to corporate liability and class action lawsuits to PayPal, and to the helpful fellow from Petition Online Support in another thread, it's because my mother is a legal clerk, and I work for the federal government. She knows the law first hand, and I deal with people who are suing the government, or being sued by the government, on a regular basis. There's a lot of legal knowledge in our family. I have been invited to participate in class action lawsuits on at least three occasions in the past, and the companies have settled in every case. I have never sued anyone, and have no personal interest in litigation, but I know how vulnerable corporations are to legal action.
PayPal wrote:
Dear DOSGuy,
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
We deeply regret the necessity of limiting any of our valued customers' accounts. Unfortunately, there is, historically, a very high risk of fraud and loss associated with the sales of so-called "hot ticket" gaming systems, particularly before or soon after the release dates. This risk is compounded by the fact that most of these sales are for considerably more the retail price of the gaming system. To mitigate this risk, we limit accounts and hold payments for these items on the front end until we are able to verify that sellers have the items in hand and they are being shipped to the buyers. While we understand that situations like this can be frustrating, these measures are in place to protect the entire PayPal community, including you.
We apologize for your frustration in this matter, and any inconvenience the situation may have caused for you.
At the time you account was placed under limited access you had received two payments for Nintendo Wii's, and had not had any feedback within the past year. In addition, once limited you were unable to provide valid online tracking for the shipment of these high risk items. Without online tracking you would be liable for any reversals due to customer complaints of non receipt, chargebacks or buyer fraud, as you would not qualify for PayPal's Seller Protection Policy. Please understand that this limitation was not meant as an accusation toward you of any kind.
As an online service PayPal does not have the privilege of face-to-face contact with our many valued customers. As a result individuals of low character will sometimes attempt to exploit this fact and use our service in an attempt to defraud both buyers and sellers.
To combat such attempts PayPal employs some of the most rigorous security procedures on the Internet. The success of our efforts is measured by the fact that PayPal currently suffers a rate of fraud that is less than half of the industry average of 1%.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.
Sincerely,
Ela
Executive Escalations
PayPal, an eBay Company
DOSGuy wrote:
It's not that I was unable to provide a tracking number, but that I refused to give a tracking number to a third party. I received a suspicious phone call in which someone asked me for a tracking number, which was none of your business! You had no right to take pre-emptive action against my account. If the buyer hadn't received her Wii, she would have complained.
We both know that any business relationship requires trust. When someone promises to do something, you give them an opportunity to act in good faith, you don't assume that they will act in bad faith. I know you understand that because they teach it in kindergarten. I know you understand that PayPal is wrong, but you can't admit it because I might submit your admission of guilt in court. I'm not going to do that. I haven't asked for any money. All I want is a sincere apology, and you can't even give me that!
Eventually someone will file a class action lawsuit against PayPal, but it won't be me. I'm sure that thousands of your customers have been presumed guilty without justification, and suffered financial losses as a result. PayPal may be able to protect itself from individual litigants by creating terms and conditions that waive you of responsibility for financial loss, but we both know that if a company is acting unethically, courts can and do award damages to the victims of that company. You need to stop doing this to people immediately, because this is a major liability for your company. The longer you get away with it, the larger the class action will become.
There can be no business relationship between PayPal and me because there is no trust. You didn't trust me to act in good faith, and I can't trust you to hold my money in trust on my behalf. I was so relieved when I learned that Google was offering a competing product called Google Checkout. You've violated the trust of a lot of people over the years, and they can't wait to leave you. Now that you aren't a monopoly, you have a choice to make. Are you going to do the right thing, or the wrong thing?
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