RGB Classic Games Forum

Great! The patches that I have listed in the above post are also with the old installers (to the best of my knowledge, the patches themselves are the same RTPatch programmes, what is different are the wrappers/installers). Many patches also have ANSI art logo screens.

MrFlibble wrote:The old installers, on the other hand, are less common, and they also have the merit of being the original thing.

That is of course, slightly subjective. Since not all the games were originally released in the Crane installers (only games/versions released in late 1994 were originally distributed using this installer). Though the Crane installers are aesthetically the most pleasing.

But from that list, the following games are not the "original" distribution:

• Arctic Adventure v2.0
• Bio Menace v1.1
• Commander Keen: Invasion of the Vorticons v1.31
• Commander Keen: Goodbye Galaxy v1.4
• Commander Keen: Goodbye Galaxy CGA v1.4
• Cosmo's Cosmic Adventure v1.2
• Dark Ages v1.0
• Duke Nukum v2.0
• Duke Nukem II v1.0
• Kingdom of Kroz II v2.0
• Major Stryker v1.4
• Math Rescue v2.0
• Monster Bash v2.1
• Monuments of Mars v1.0
• Paganitzu v1.02
• Pharaoh's Tomb v3.0
• Wolfenstein 3-D v1.4*

* First distribution to include SETBLAST.EXE and W3D-HELP.EXE, so it could be considered a new version. However it is also the version with the GOOBERS cheat code disabled.

Of course, games released before 1992 didn't have any installers at all so in case you'd want to preserve it with an installer you might want the earliest one available. But many of these games were released using the DeICE or ARJSFX installers.

Litude wrote:

MrFlibble wrote:The old installers, on the other hand, are less common, and they also have the merit of being the original thing.

That is of course, slightly subjective. Since not all the games were originally released in the Crane installers (only games/versions released in late 1994 were originally distributed using this installer). Though the Crane installers are aesthetically the most pleasing.

Yes, I simplified this a bit But I suppose no one would argue that pre-1998 installers are closer to the "original thing" than the most recent ones.

Litude wrote:But from that list, the following games are not the "original" distribution:

• Arctic Adventure v2.0
• Bio Menace v1.1
• Commander Keen: Invasion of the Vorticons v1.31
• Commander Keen: Goodbye Galaxy v1.4
• Commander Keen: Goodbye Galaxy CGA v1.4
• Cosmo's Cosmic Adventure v1.2
• Dark Ages v1.0
• Duke Nukum v2.0
• Duke Nukem II v1.0
• Kingdom of Kroz II v2.0
• Major Stryker v1.4
• Math Rescue v2.0
• Monster Bash v2.1
• Monuments of Mars v1.0
• Paganitzu v1.02
• Pharaoh's Tomb v3.0
• Wolfenstein 3-D v1.4*

Just to clarify, by "not the original distribution", do you mean that they use different installers, or that something else also makes them not original?

My reasoning is in part that the Crane installers (I didn't know they were called that until you mentioned it now) are "original" because apparently this installer is specific to Apogee/3D Realms releases (correct me if I'm wrong here), whereas both DeICE and the generic post-1998 installer are used by other games/products too.

MrFlibble wrote:Just to clarify, by "not the original distribution", do you mean that they use different installers, or that something else also makes them not original?

I meant that when they were originally released, they either used the DeICE or ARJSFX installers (or in the case of very old titles, files only).

MrFlibble wrote:My reasoning is in part that the Crane installers (I didn't know they were called that until you mentioned it now) are "original" because apparently this installer is specific to Apogee/3D Realms releases (correct me if I'm wrong here), whereas both DeICE and the generic post-1998 installer are used by other games/products too.

That is of course a good point. IIRC the installer was made by SubZero Software (I think they are mentioned somewhere within the installer) and I haven't encountered any other company using the installer.

Litude wrote:

MrFlibble wrote:My reasoning is in part that the Crane installers (I didn't know they were called that until you mentioned it now) are "original" because apparently this installer is specific to Apogee/3D Realms releases (correct me if I'm wrong here), whereas both DeICE and the generic post-1998 installer are used by other games/products too.

That is of course a good point. IIRC the installer was made by SubZero Software (I think they are mentioned somewhere within the installer) and I haven't encountered any other company using the installer.

I think even if the installers were not exclusively Apogee but some of them still used ANSI art logos, it would be logical IMO to keep other installers, without the logos, in line with them. That way the files would be from the same time period, which is arguably the height of Apogee's history (no pun intended).

Of course, in some hypothetical situation it would be logical to collect all the distributions, including the truly original, first-time releases. But as DOSGuy said having one file per release is reasonable enough, especially since you have mentioned before that really original Apogee files from SWC BBS for example (with authentic BBS comments) are quite hard to find.

MrFlibble wrote:Of course, in some hypothetical situation it would be logical to collect all the distributions, including the truly original, first-time releases.

Ask and you shall receive. I zipped up my collection of Apogee Software shareware, freeware and abandoned (Star Trek & Jumpman) releases. That includes pretty much every release I've come across. You can download it from here (it comes at a hefty 500 Mb 7-zipped).

File names are sadly not the originals, since organizing the files with their original names would be a pain. Though if you're curious about some specific file name I might be able to find it out from my notes. Any possible comments that existed in the archives have also been stripped.

Wow, this is absolutely amazing. Thanks!!! Can I share this link with guys on other forums?

Sure, I don't see why not.

Thanks!

On a slightly related note, do you know if there were any regional releases of shareware Apogee/3D Realms titles? By which I mean language or at least spelling differences.

For example, some time ago I found this video of the PlayStation verison of Duke Nukem 3D which has the word "Armor" spelled as "Armour" on the HUD. I posted this video here and another user said that maybe there was a PC release with British spelling as well.

Also has there ever been a UK shareware release of Shadow Warrior with the darts instead of shurikens?

I don't think shareware/demo versions were ever released of Apogee games in another language. The only possible exception to this is Wolfenstein 3D, where the source code makes a mention of there existing a Japanese demo version. Though whether it was actually released is not known.

Registered/full versions of the games were localized though. Wolfenstein 3D was localized into Spanish, Japanese and Taiwanese (but the Spanish one is dubious whether it was actually released). Duke Nukem 3D for DOS was at least localized into Korean. The PlayStation version was localized into far more languages though.

Region specific shareware versions do exist, from the top of my head at least the following titles had such releases:

• Alien Carnage/Halloween Harry
• Commander Keen: Invasion of the Vorticons
• Mystic Towers

Well I haven't been personally capable of confirming the Alien Carnage/Halloween Harry scenario, but old newsgroup discussions have indicated that it was released in Australia before it was released by Apogee (most likely the missing v1.0), and considering that Mystic Towers had exclusive shareware versions one would think Halloween Harry also did (and I don't think the title was ever renamed to Alien Carnage in Australia). Both titles were also published by Manaccom in Australia, a notable shareware publisher at the time.

Awesome collection, Litude!

Here's the old version of Stargunner v1.1 installer: 1star11.zip

I don't know I'm always trying to compete with other games. However I admit that I gave this a chance while waiting for the installer to take forever to install. Anyways, with Apogee games this one has a DEMO that was worth it to check out. There seems to be a glitch in my download however. So I couldn't play the game.

Thank you Jesus Christ that the installer actually worked - just a little patience is needed.

developertn wrote:waiting for the installer to take forever to install.

DOSBox needs to be set to at least 10,000 cycles (15,000 and more recommended) for these games to run at acceptable rates (and for the installer to work more or less quickly).

developertn wrote:There seems to be a glitch in my download however. So I couldn't play the game.

Have you configured the game in the setup programme before launching it? Or maybe the problem was with low cycles.

Great DEMO either way! I wasn't in it to play the game. It is the technical finesse of the DEMO that really caught my attention.